I recently had to provide 6 references, 3 for one role and 3 for another. I didn’t want to make the original 3 do double-duty so I found 6. And I might need to provide more soon enough.
Half wrote letters, the other half took calls. So much work, and I’m still thanking each and every one for their energy and effort.
I’d love a reference check from past employees on the role! One look at Glassdoor tells you how many leave orgs, bitter and resentful.
I’ve always thought the interview process was flawed. How about have them sit in on a meeting, both as observer and contributor, if you want to see what they can potentially bring to the team?
EXACTLY. It's a big deal to ask people to be references, especially because you never know how they will be engaged...is it a phone call, an email, a form? I had to do a reference recently that was a form, and it had a word limit for each response! Like it was forcing me to just give generic answers. I was like, ma'am, I am a WRITER. You can put my thoughts in a box like that.
I recently had to give a reference, and it was a call! I didn't really want to, so I tried getting out of it by providing a short written one (the scheduling logistics were so annoying, plus I didn't want to talk to these people, so draining). Fortunately, that was sufficient. But it's a lot to ask of people!
I love love love your idea of getting a reference check from past employees lol
I gave a reference last week. The silliness of it all is it was for someone I adore, both as a former colleague and a friend. Of course it’ll be glowing!
The woman said we should stay in touch as my “background is very interesting” to them 😂 and then connected to me on LinkedIn.
I’m not necessarily against reference checks, but I don’t use them — though I do lean on recommendations, which serve a similar purpose in opening doors, but also gate keeping. Thanks for making me think about it.
I’ve been a reference for people I supervised and for two of my former bosses. For some of the folks I supervised or even my peers, the calls were painfully predictable. Most could’ve been boiled down to one question: “How boss-able is X?” When I sensed that vibe, I’d often call the candidate afterward and advise them against taking the role.
In other cases — especially with my former bosses — the conversations were far more constructive. They focused on stories, open-ended questions, and the context of the work environment. If the goal is to understand that environment — as you mentioned, a major factor — then hearing from people who lived it (other than the candidate) can offer useful insight. Done well, and with analytical rigor (though I’m not sure how you’d factor in all the variables), reference checks can be valuable.
That said, well done or not, the endgame is always the same: predict future performance. And that’s a losing game, no matter the method. We lean on the past as a proxy for the future — which is a pretty weak predictor, generally speaking. But since the game is to appear rational rather than embrace uncertainty, referrals end up being just another performative rationalization tool. No better, no worse.
Where I might push back is on the notion of employment as a “right.” I agree with those who say it’s not — just as working for an organization isn’t the organization’s right. It has to be mutually agreed upon, based on a mix of objective and subjective factors. The thing about rights is that they imply duties on someone else’s part. Just as it’s not the employee’s duty to work for a company, it’s not the employer’s duty to hire anyone — assuming everything is done legally and ethically of course...
I come from a country where reference checks are not a thing, and we are doing just fine :)
😂
I recently had to provide 6 references, 3 for one role and 3 for another. I didn’t want to make the original 3 do double-duty so I found 6. And I might need to provide more soon enough.
Half wrote letters, the other half took calls. So much work, and I’m still thanking each and every one for their energy and effort.
I’d love a reference check from past employees on the role! One look at Glassdoor tells you how many leave orgs, bitter and resentful.
I’ve always thought the interview process was flawed. How about have them sit in on a meeting, both as observer and contributor, if you want to see what they can potentially bring to the team?
EXACTLY. It's a big deal to ask people to be references, especially because you never know how they will be engaged...is it a phone call, an email, a form? I had to do a reference recently that was a form, and it had a word limit for each response! Like it was forcing me to just give generic answers. I was like, ma'am, I am a WRITER. You can put my thoughts in a box like that.
I recently had to give a reference, and it was a call! I didn't really want to, so I tried getting out of it by providing a short written one (the scheduling logistics were so annoying, plus I didn't want to talk to these people, so draining). Fortunately, that was sufficient. But it's a lot to ask of people!
I love love love your idea of getting a reference check from past employees lol
It's a big ask! I've acted as a reference before, where it felt like I was doing their onboarding plan for them.
I gave a reference last week. The silliness of it all is it was for someone I adore, both as a former colleague and a friend. Of course it’ll be glowing!
The woman said we should stay in touch as my “background is very interesting” to them 😂 and then connected to me on LinkedIn.
I like her style.
😏
Creative recruiting tactic on her part!
Ps: he got the job :)
🎉
"In many jurisdictions, you’re not allowed to give a negative reference or conduct back-channel checks."
THIS. 10000x this. So it's all performative slop, and, not to mention, a huge waste of time.
Also, Darth Trader? Really, dude?
Right? Oh, sorry, Darth Trader, for being so full of shit that I believe in equality and justice.
I’m not necessarily against reference checks, but I don’t use them — though I do lean on recommendations, which serve a similar purpose in opening doors, but also gate keeping. Thanks for making me think about it.
I’ve been a reference for people I supervised and for two of my former bosses. For some of the folks I supervised or even my peers, the calls were painfully predictable. Most could’ve been boiled down to one question: “How boss-able is X?” When I sensed that vibe, I’d often call the candidate afterward and advise them against taking the role.
In other cases — especially with my former bosses — the conversations were far more constructive. They focused on stories, open-ended questions, and the context of the work environment. If the goal is to understand that environment — as you mentioned, a major factor — then hearing from people who lived it (other than the candidate) can offer useful insight. Done well, and with analytical rigor (though I’m not sure how you’d factor in all the variables), reference checks can be valuable.
That said, well done or not, the endgame is always the same: predict future performance. And that’s a losing game, no matter the method. We lean on the past as a proxy for the future — which is a pretty weak predictor, generally speaking. But since the game is to appear rational rather than embrace uncertainty, referrals end up being just another performative rationalization tool. No better, no worse.
Where I might push back is on the notion of employment as a “right.” I agree with those who say it’s not — just as working for an organization isn’t the organization’s right. It has to be mutually agreed upon, based on a mix of objective and subjective factors. The thing about rights is that they imply duties on someone else’s part. Just as it’s not the employee’s duty to work for a company, it’s not the employer’s duty to hire anyone — assuming everything is done legally and ethically of course...